how much comission does flatter take ?

How is this any different than a paypal button?

If people like what they hear on the site, they click the button, "share their cake", and erm, done.

Perhaps I'm seriously missing something here.

THE CAKE IS A LIE! :O

Nah, umm... from my understanding it has a bit-torrent mentality of the sort.

"A group of websites will be put into a select group and viewers of those websites will have to become members of the websites before they can view them. Becoming a member will cost a viewer a fixed monthly fee. The minimum users will have to pay is 2 euros. Sunde said, "the money you pay each month will be spread evenly among the buttons you click in a month. We want to encourage people to share money as well as content." In the beginning of the service Flattr itself will take a 10% of all the users monthly flatrate. It's currently in a closed beta but users can sign up for a beta invite code on their own site."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flattr

From my understanding there Flattr takes 10% commission fee of all the users combined at the time.

It's different from the Paypal button in regards to how much one can give ultimately.

Paypal is more superior in regards to how one can give directly in large amounts from certain individuals. While flattr works better in a "swarm" (much like how torrents do).

So say, if you only have a few flattr members, you probably won't make much. Would probably be better off with a paypal button. However, if there are loads of flattr members behind you, supporting you, the benefits overall would favour you much more with flattr, as I'd imagine the gain would be much bigger. It'd also be easier, and possibly make people more willing to give, especially for people who don't have a lot to give in the first place; seeing as they only pay 2 euro (would probably be 2 bucks in the U.S. regardless of the euro, not sure though) a month.

I don't like how they act that there is absolutely no option to pay for content though. They're completely acting as if Paypal has never existed. ;p

I guess this seems redundant to me. Isn't this basically how the internet works anyway? It's almost as though they are trying to put their own internet on the internet.

The social network bubble is about to burst, another service/site with a catchy name. Better off with bandcamp/tunecore/etc methinks.

People enjoy torrents because they get shit for free. No arguing that. If you download a torrent and like something you research a little and donate/buy/support...not pay a subscription and click a button because the masses are too fucking lazy/ Mr Sunde doesn't want to lose his ass any more than he has already.

Or isn't this basically an early form of ISP tax/tier based internet?

In short, I'm not sold.

http://www.dirpy.com/

This is... such an awful name...

Lawl, this seems silly. Not a bad idea, but seriously... "flattr"? "cake"?

And, I definitely disagree that there hasn't been a way for musicians/listeners mutually interact on the internet. This is just a clever tool.

That's a good way to put it.

I like the idea, because I think it would benefit a lot of people with the way media is being shared these days. But it would take so much organization for it to work right. I feel like everybody would need to know about it. Anyway, I think it's a decent idea, but it'll be quite a while before it gets off the ground. Kind of like last.fm in the early days when they had no actual content on the site.

Izzy, do you have a Last.fm? I've just started using Songbird, and it syncs all nice with my Last.fm page.

Jeah, i remember last.fm in the early days... wasn't really much of a site really... just a tracker at the time.

I'm not sure whether flattr will work.

If it is successful, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up being some sort of Paypal competitor (as in larger direct payment system) in the long run (which I'm all for, as paypal charges some shitty fees/customer service at times and they need a competitor).

But take something like twitter... who would have ever thought some stupid shitty site asking what the fuck you're doing with your pathetic life would become so popular. xD Then again, I guess it makes sense, since loads of people are very self-indulgent.

Anyway, I can't say flattr will be a bad thing for one. It's not like it they're telling you can't offer a Paypal donation button along side it. You'll still be able to do so, if you so choose to. This just seems another alternative to offer to people ultimately. Which is good, cuz competition is always bettaaaah ;D

Lets see.... it's 2 bucks a month. 500 People click sites A's flattr button the first month. Later on in the month they click site B's flattr button.

That breaks people's 2 bucks down to 1 buck for each site from each person, during that month, right? So that's $500 for each site... subtract 25 (10%) for flattr.com, that's $450.

Thus each site received $450, from 500 people.

Now if 500 people only clicked on 1 site that month. That site alone would receive $1,000, minus the the 10% flattr fee... so that'd be $900.

... although, what happens when someone simply doesn't click a site that month?

Perhaps they roll over to next month? I would think, otherwise fuck that shit.

How much would Paypal have taken had 500 people donated 1 dollar to a site?

https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside

$1, paypal would take 33 cents out of it. That's $165 dollars out of 500 people paying 1 dollar. So 500 people would only end up paying you: $335 dollars ;[

However, there is now a micropayment system via paypal:

https://micropayments.paypal-labs.com/

BUT you have to CHOOSE that method. ALSO, after switching to micropayments, any money accepted via that PayPal account will ONLY use the new rate. That means that if, someone donates more than $12, a micropayments account may actually end up costing you more in transaction fees than a standard one.

Anyway, via this method one would pay:

$1, paypal would take 10 cents out of it. That's $50 dollars out of 500 people paying one dollar. So 500 people would end up paying you: $450.

So same as if you would have used the flattr effect.

This is only assuming you set up your account to accept micro payments.

Which site would stimulate people enough to donate... who knows.

Although, apparently flattr will only be taking 10% at first. So it's likely they may lower that, once more people join... unless they get greedy, then I wouldn't see the point of it. If they do take a smaller percentage in the long run, then I definitely would see it work far superior than Paypal.

If it goes any higher than 10%, it's going to hurt it. Because I think it is a great idea, I can totally imagine not just this site, but this system being utilized largely within the next 10 years, what with downloading and whatnot being inevitable and the record companies not being able to do shit about it. It is, besides, an all around pretty good idea.

I'll still find stuff for free though ; 3

yerp http://www.last.fm/user/Cily

Guess who has a Flattr account ^_^

I think I'll try it out here on TDS, if I can :p

Nice! I signed up to get an invite when they have them but that was a couple months ago.

Then you'll probably be receiving one soon ;D

Check your junk mail as well, my confirmation email was lost in there at one point.

oh boy, I got it!

This seems to take away any interaction you could have with an admirer/artist. "Just click a button" as it says, is showing your appreciation. It's a profit driven scheme with no strings attached for the either party. It's anonymous which I also have a problem with.

Your admirer's are tallied and become a statistic from which you can make money.

If you cared enough about someones art/productions then you would get in contact with them and thank them online/irl. Just throwing money at them over the interwebs is a violation of community sense and the selflessness of an artist. Buying a cd/product however is different in that it's a proper transaction, and theres a fair chance that you'll actually have to speak to the artist (ZOMG??!) especially if they're in the position to want to use such a thing as Flattr. This, serving of anonymous desert leaves a lot to be desired.
It has a horribly corporate feel to it. Too cold, too calculating.

I'd put it on my site, but I wouldn't like it.
...if that makes any sense.

No, it doesn't actually, elaborate :p

Tell that to everyone with a Paypal donation button. Same thing.

People easily download stuff freely and learn from information provided to them freely, anonymously I may add. Legally or illegally. I don't see how providing a few cents or dollars is the end all of all evils, simply because it's anonymous... and that I'm not even sure is anonymous, I'm still not 100% familiar with the system.

Do you have a flattr account? Have you tried it yet?

I say try it first, prior to judging it, to be honest.

Also, people have to pay bills. Music or writing has been a source of income prior to le internet or whatever. They were a statistic ages ago.

Also, if you're very anti-corporate: I suggest you never make any chipmusic ever again. Since all chip music is corporately funded in one form or another or came from a corporation operation. As in they were sold as products first. ;) Anonymously. In a statistic and cold manner. Chip is hugely corporate in fact, in that sense at least.

BTW, have you added any funds to yours yet?

I think I'm gonna give it a go this weekend, for testing purposes... to get a whole feel for it.

Then I'll see if I can implement it on TDS somehow.

You grace me with your superior wisdom Mono. (Not being sarcastic btw :)

No I don't have a flattr account and I totally agree with you about "don't knock it till you've tried it".
Unfortunately mouth/hands work faster than mind :)

I don't have inate anti-corporate syndrome, that'd be insanely hypocrytical of me, confessed consumer :) and i work at maccas.

But can you really not sense the corporate-ness of such a thing? I mean the deal sounds great but, to commit to something so universal... advantage could easily be taken.

The POSSIBLE anonymity of it isn't that evil, it's probly just a personal preference. If I made things I wouldn't expect or even ask for people to pay for them (within reason), I prefer to meet new like minded people who share similar interests/hobbies/art. It's just not as meaningful if all you are to the artist is a click, a statistic. I mean it then depends on the creator and whether they're just out to make a few bucks or share things for the love. Either way the two intertwine, nothing like this is black and white. So yeah I concur with what you say Mono. As you said, consumers are statistics in the rawest sense and that goes for anything corporately endorsed, has done and will do for all time.
Shouldn't force such thoughts on others :).

I should really point out at this point that our discussion is pretty redundant lol.
As I said I shamelessly admit to being a consumer (anyone who doesn't would have a hard time proving it) and I would deffinatly use flattr if it was introduced to TDS.
:) faith in a community takes precedence over aversion of corporate "original sin". LOL oh gawd stop writing vytantus hahhaa too much beer and theology today

Haha, I'll drink to that ;D

But yeah, I can sense a cooperate-ness sense to it. No doubt about that. But that's the feeling I get when money is involved with anything.

I haven't added funds to it yet. I'm thinking I will when I'm out of school for the summer [so in a week and a half] when I have some time to really see what it's all about.

Cool. Gonna see if I can set this up on TDS by today.

nice

Ok, mind setting yours up on here now, Bella?

http://trebledeathsystem.com/forums/401

So I can Flattr yo fiiiiiiine ass hahahaha.

As in test it out :p

I put money on my account now.

So, been on Flattr for a few months now, yeah?

My final conclusion: The concept is great, but in a way, it takes power or control of your funds.

I found out, that apparently, if you leave you money just sitting there, and don't flattr anyone that month, Flattr.com believes it's cool to just take that money and donate it to "charity" (which charity, they do not seem to disclose).

So, with this small detail, I'm completely put off by it. Apparently it was in their FAQ.

I rather the money roll over and be used the way "I" would want to use it. Not let a site dictate that it should go to an unknown/mysterious "charity". Like wtf.

Until they fix this, I think I'm gonna pull the plug on it for the time being.

I don't really like being left out in the "dark".

Yeah, I noticed that detail when I first put funds in, which is why I didn't add much. If they get to be more integrated with everything it could be worth it, but I haven't really found the time to go through the site and find stuff I want to Flattr. I'd rather see the flattr button elsewhere and use it that way, which I haven't really noticed happening. I hope they find ways to improve and grow the idea, but I'm with you for now.

:)

I'm gonna complain on their forums, since their support suddenly stopped responding to me, lol.

so think it was all a giant scam ?